Jump to content

Dogs love Dog Forum Join Now

Welcome to our Dog Forum!

We're an online community for dog owners to share and learn advice on all elements of owning a dog.

Join our forum today, it's free and benefits include:
  • Get free, independent advice from experienced fellow dog owners
  • Post as many questions (or answers!) as you like
  • Upload photos of your dog to our dog photo section
  • Search the huge archive of Q&As - we've been online since '99
Photo

Dog Genome Project: Double-muscling In Whippets


52 replies to this topic

#21 DENISE BAILEY

DENISE BAILEY

    NNWRF TREASURER

  • Club Leader
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,637 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 24 November 2006 - 07:10 PM

pic of him just over a year old

Attached Files


Edited by DENISE BAILEY, 24 November 2006 - 07:14 PM.

Posted Image

NNWRF WEB SITE

To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.
Reba McEntire

Friends are like underwear .... Some crawl up your ass... Some snap under pressure... Some don't have the strength to hold you up... Some get a little twisted... Some are your favorite... Some are cheap and just plain nasty... And some actually do cover your ass when u need them too

#22 DENISE BAILEY

DENISE BAILEY

    NNWRF TREASURER

  • Club Leader
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,637 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 24 November 2006 - 07:23 PM

Can i just add that mac was out of a litter of 4 2 dog 2 bitchs 1 dog (mac) and 1 bitch (eve) both were bully also mac was undershot in the jaw..the other 2 mary and minty are both fine pics of eve at 14 weeks

Attached Files


Posted Image

NNWRF WEB SITE

To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.
Reba McEntire

Friends are like underwear .... Some crawl up your ass... Some snap under pressure... Some don't have the strength to hold you up... Some get a little twisted... Some are your favorite... Some are cheap and just plain nasty... And some actually do cover your ass when u need them too

#23 jensen

jensen

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 02 May 2007 - 04:27 PM

This study has just been published:

Double-muscling study

#24 Cathrine

Cathrine

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 233 posts
  • Location:Norway

Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:28 PM

I can add some more recent pics of Mac, he is 1 1/2 years old in these.
He is the typical bull whippet!

Attached Files


Mac, the globetrotting whippet!

#25 Cathrine

Cathrine

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 233 posts
  • Location:Norway

Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:30 PM

Typical overshot

Attached Files


Mac, the globetrotting whippet!

#26 Cathrine

Cathrine

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 233 posts
  • Location:Norway

Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:32 PM

one more

Attached Files


Mac, the globetrotting whippet!

#27 DENISE BAILEY

DENISE BAILEY

    NNWRF TREASURER

  • Club Leader
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,637 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:55 PM

but hes a lovely little boy
Posted Image

NNWRF WEB SITE

To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.
Reba McEntire

Friends are like underwear .... Some crawl up your ass... Some snap under pressure... Some don't have the strength to hold you up... Some get a little twisted... Some are your favorite... Some are cheap and just plain nasty... And some actually do cover your ass when u need them too

#28 DENISE BAILEY

DENISE BAILEY

    NNWRF TREASURER

  • Club Leader
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,637 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:00 PM

Mac mam (Lisa) chilling out tonight

Posted Image

Lisa during her racing years

Attached Files


Posted Image

NNWRF WEB SITE

To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.
Reba McEntire

Friends are like underwear .... Some crawl up your ass... Some snap under pressure... Some don't have the strength to hold you up... Some get a little twisted... Some are your favorite... Some are cheap and just plain nasty... And some actually do cover your ass when u need them too

#29 DENISE BAILEY

DENISE BAILEY

    NNWRF TREASURER

  • Club Leader
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,637 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:03 PM

Mac's other litter brother (minty) & sister (mary)

Attached Files


Posted Image

NNWRF WEB SITE

To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.
Reba McEntire

Friends are like underwear .... Some crawl up your ass... Some snap under pressure... Some don't have the strength to hold you up... Some get a little twisted... Some are your favorite... Some are cheap and just plain nasty... And some actually do cover your ass when u need them too

#30 jensen

jensen

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:57 AM

I can add some more recent pics of Mac, he is 1 1/2 years old in these.
He is the typical bull whippet!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



And based on that full frontal nudity pose, I'd say the typical boy! :p

#31 seaspot_run

seaspot_run

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 656 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 15 May 2007 - 01:33 AM


As far as bulls in American pedigrees goes i would venture this may have more to do with English non ped blood in the breeding rather than a spontaneous mutation.

Whether the condition is caused by a single gene is IMO equivicable. Whippet racing is a power sport as it is a sprint race and clearly well muscled dogs are an advantage and do well and hence are used to breed from. Its plauable that the gene is recessive but partialy expressed ( rather like sickle cell aneamia) and confers an advantage when a single autosome is present but when both are the recessive gene a bull occurs. Why there is also commonly skeletal defects is more difficult to explain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



The fact is, it doesn't really matter how it got into the bloodlines.
jen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No, it DOES matter. It matters because the single copy of this gene appears to confer a competitive speed advantage which is gained via the introduction of a mutation found in non-pedigree lines.

It matters because this gene appears in the USA to be prevalent in the gene pools that double up on CWA ineligible stock, and in the UK in the gene pool of the non-pedigree racers. Which is fine, because non-pedigree Whippet racing in the UK is above-board and out in the open.

Is there a single instance of the bully or the bully gene found in UK pedigree stock or in USA pedigree stock which is not controversial in pedigree?

I would care to know this. I don't see how you can say it doesn't matter. It matters. It matters because of the vilification of persons dedicated to the breed who have simply been calling it as they see it, which is that non-pedigree stock was allowed infiltrate the "Pedigree" gene pool in open Whippet racing in the USA and Canada back in the early 1980's, and has dominated ever since.

I'm glad you did the study, and I let my dogs become a part of it, but to me, it's as big of a smoking gun as collie eye anomaly in the so-called "longhaired Whippet" until you can produce for me an instance of this gene being found in even heavily-muscled pedigree UK stock.

I have friends who submitted their very heavy muscled, very big, very broad-headed, quite fast pedigree Whippets off of pre-1980 USA straight racing lines and they did not show up as carriers of this gene in that study.

#32 Joanna

Joanna

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,740 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Heart of the 5 Valleys ~Gloucestershire

Posted 18 May 2007 - 08:28 AM

Is there a single instance of the bully or the bully gene found in UK pedigree stock or in USA pedigree stock which is not controversial in pedigree?



From looking at the results, no (UK)!
The gene occurs in the non-ped community in this country, but is not apparent in the pedigree community.

I do agree that it DOES matter, it is a genetic fault which we should try to eradicate from the breed in the same way as we should strive to eradicate any inherent genetic problem, disease or undesirable trait.
Posted ImagePosted Image
I LOVE MY BOYS

#33 Terry & Sheila Smith

Terry & Sheila Smith

    Regular Member

  • Deleted Users
  • 239 posts

Posted 20 May 2007 - 12:57 AM

I do agree that it DOES matter, it is a genetic fault which we should try to eradicate from the breed in the same way as we should strive to eradicate any inherent genetic problem, disease or undesirable trait.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]



In the non-ped world it's not considered a fault so long as it puts some speed on 'em.
Is there such a thing as "double muscling" or are we just talking heavily muscled dogs ? Have any of these dogs been dissected (after a natural death) & actually been found to indeed have 2 sets of muscles? Is it possible to have such a mutation that only manifests itself in a dogs musclature & nowhere else?
When we suscribed to yankee discussion lists there were regular brags about the amount of muscle certain dogs carried. If you breed heavy muscle to heavy muscle you aren't going to get wimpy type progeny out of 'em are you?

Terry Smith

#34 jensen

jensen

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 30 May 2007 - 09:25 PM

I have friends who submitted their very heavy muscled, very big, very broad-headed, quite fast pedigree Whippets off of pre-1980 USA straight racing lines and they did not show up as carriers of this gene in that study.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




Well, either you are lying in the above statement or your friend is. The Ostrander Lab is prohibited by federal law from releasing "test results" to anyone as they are not licensed as a testing facility. I know this because I asked Dr. Ostrander personally about the possibility of getting the results released to the whippets' owners.

The results for exactly EIGHT whippets were released to their owners--the eight whippets whose photos appear in the study. The only reason why those whippets' status was released was as part of the photo release process. Three were clear, three were carriers, and two were affected. I know the identity of ALL of the clear whippets and I dare say that none of them belong to friends of yours.

From my perspective, I'm working hard to get the information about this study disseminated to all whippet owners and breeders. I'm working even harder to try and get a test developed for it. I don't care where it came from; for my purposes, it doesn't matter.

If you would like to dwell on 25 year old rumours, whether they prove to be true or not, go ahead. In my opinion, that does nothing but damage to the breed. Your dredging up ancient history will drive people underground with this problem, thus impairing the work going on to try and get rid of it.

Well done, Karen.

#35 jensen

jensen

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 30 May 2007 - 09:31 PM

Is there such a thing as "double muscling" or are we just talking heavily muscled dogs ? Have any of these dogs been dissected (after a natural death) & actually been found to indeed have 2 sets of muscles? Is it possible to have such a mutation that only manifests itself in a dogs musclature & nowhere else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hi Terry,

The gene in question governs the production of a growth factor protein called myostatin. Myostatin is a negative regulator of muscle development; so, if your body produces too much myostatin, you will have some sort of muscle wasting disease (like muscular dystrophy). If your body produces too little myostatin, you have muscular hypertrophy (too much muscle).

Different types of myostatin mutations have different effects on muscle development. Some will cause an increase in the size of muscle fibers, some will cause an increase in the number of muscle fibers, and some will cause both.

I hope that answers your questions.

cheers,

jen

#36 dogsbutt

dogsbutt

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 31 May 2007 - 01:35 AM

I know the identity of ALL of the clear whippets and I dare say that none of them belong to friends of yours.


So if this is a confidential study why do you know all of the clear whippets? Shouldn't you just know the identity of the 8 whippets that are pictured?

#37 jensen

jensen

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 31 May 2007 - 05:25 AM

So if this is a confidential study why do you know all of the clear whippets? Shouldn't you just know the identity of the 8 whippets that are pictured?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I know the identity of the only clear whippets anyone knows about...the three whose pictures appear in the study. I know their identities because I know the dogs.

#38 Macha

Macha

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,636 posts

Posted 12 June 2007 - 05:22 PM

BULLY WHIPPETS MAKE HEADLINES IN USA: for info and pictures of bully whippet see today's New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com

hurry as free view is only for about a week (and you may have to register for viewing or printing)

see also the article Jensen provided a link for earlier:

http://genetics.plos...n.0030079-S.pdf

or

http://genetics.plos...al.pgen.0030079

(to see the photos right, you need to look at the pdf version)

#39 indogolfing

indogolfing

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 13 June 2007 - 03:35 PM

It matters because this gene appears in the USA to be prevalent in the gene pools that double up on CWA ineligible stock, and in the UK in the gene pool of the non-pedigree racers. Is there a single instance of the bully or the bully gene found in UK pedigree stock or in USA pedigree stock which is not controversial in pedigree?

??? You know this for a fact, or just speculating because it fits your agenda? "CWA ineligible stock"? Which dogs are these that double up on the good racing bloodlines ("CWA ineligible stock"). For those who don't know, CWA is a small exclusive organization that bans the faster racing lines, pretending it has something to do with breed purity. Against the wishes of the founders, they let one windyglen dog in, then enacted a rule that required a show Ch in the first three generations of the pedigree, as a rounda bout way to prevent this backsliding happening again. In other words, an organization based on rumors, innuendo, and absolutely NO facts.
The answer to your other question can't happen until a test comes out. None of the dogs tested were "controversial in pedigree". See above.
keep slinging.
vickie

#40 Strike Whippets

Strike Whippets

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,481 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Just here ..

Posted 13 June 2007 - 06:46 PM

Oh yes the CWA .......They managed to be one of the reasons our WCRA wouldn't let me import :o ........Something to do with a banned member :-" ...... So yes I agree with your take on them :)


To reply to this topic you just need to register for a user name (it's free!)
Already a member? Login to activate reply box