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LillyBlue

Whippet with upset tummy.

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Can anybody help please! What is the best food for a whippet. Lilly is 2 and a half now and is still suffering with an upset tummy! It was ok for a while but now seems to be back. We've been to the vets constantly. Poo tests come back showing nothing is wrong, so do blood tests. The only thing that works... while she's on them, is Tylosin, but as soon as she's off them it comes back within 3-4 days. She's on Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal wet food from the vets. I put a spoonful of cooked mince in it so she will eat it. We treat train with Pooch and Mutt puppy development mini bones. To stop her being sick in the mornings (bright yellow bile) I give her 3 Lily's Kitchen Bedtime Biscuits at 9.30pm (which seems to work). She's always ill at night around 2am then has to go out every hour from then until 6am. She can do a normal poo in the day then be ill again in the night. Her last meal is 6.30pm. She seems a happy healthy dog apart from this. She is naughty and eats things on walks though. I've tried to train 'leave it' but she's very strong-willed. I've been told a raw diet may help. Any thoughts and help welcome. Many thanks, Sandra.

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I feed my Whippet a raw diet and am very happy with her, I know some people do it themselves but for me I use the pre prepared frozen. Their are quite a few firms that supply them, I know they all say its completely balanced but taking a just in case track I use three different ones, (Wolftucker, Nutrement and Natural Instinct). Now I can not say if a change would help your girl but I have heard of quite a few that have changed over to raw and seen improvements in many areas. My girl has been on it all her life so I can not compare.

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Raw green tripe is supposed to be good for balancing gut health.

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Thank you Biker John. That's good to know your whippet is ok on a raw diet. I've seen Natural Instinct in our local garden centre pet food shop. If things don't improve I'm going to give it a go. My only concern is, what do you do if you go away with your whippet? We have family that are a 3.5 hour drive away. How do you travel with the frozen food?

Thank you JoanneF, I have given her tripe before but OMG the smell ! (I don't know if green tripe is different) She did love at the time but we put her on Wainwrights which was grain free. That worked for a bit but then she stopped eating it.

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Sandra, first sorry to say but green tripe is the smelly stuff. For going away, just an overnight works fine, obviously the food has defrosted by feeding time but that ok as you feed it defrosted. Any longer takes a bit of planning but so far I've managed it, taking enough, well wrapped together and knowing I could use a freezer when we got there.

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You say she was ok on Wainwrights. You took her off because she stopped eating it. This is a big clue. Wainwrights seems to suit her so I would put her back on it and give her absolutely nothing else. Use it for treats too.

Not eating can be a behaviour problem. They quickly learn that we will give them something else or add in something tasty if they leave their food.

I would put the food down without looking at her or talking to her. Leave it down, but do not leave the room, for ten minutes just potter around and completely ignore her. Once the ten minutes is up, pick up the food, again without looking at her. Do not make a comment to anyone else about her behaviour.

Try again later in the day with the same rules. No looking at her or talking to her or commenting on her behaviour in her presence.

The reasoning behind this is that dogs pick up our anxiety over their eating or not eating. It then makes their tummy go tight and they stop eating. If they are not anxious they are manipulating us into giving them something else. Once she is eating Wainwrights, which suits her tummy, you can decide what to do about her diet in the long term. You can introduce various types of food, one at a time, to see which one is causing her upset tummy. From there you will be able to choose the right food and treats for her.

I had a lurcher bitch that refused to eat anything for several days while I was away. My husband thought that she was pining for me but she was just "working" him. She tried it with me when I got back but I put the above into practice and she started eating again. I could tell from the way she kept looking up from the bowl that she was expecting to be encouraged and cajoled or to have tasty things added. It was tough doing it, because they never look fat in the first place, but it is best for them. People with multi dog households rarely suffer this problem as there is competition for the food. Well we have to be the "competition" by picking up the bowl of uneaten food and giving them nothing else until the next meal.

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Thanks

2 hours ago, Biker John said:

Sandra, first sorry to say but green tripe is the smelly stuff. For going away, just an overnight works fine, obviously the food has defrosted by feeding time but that ok as you feed it defrosted. Any longer takes a bit of planning but so far I've managed it, taking enough, well wrapped together and knowing I could use a freezer when we got there.

I'll give green tripe a miss I think. Ha ha. I'm sure I can work something out about travelling with frozen food. Thank you for your help.

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1 hour ago, gypsysmum2 said:

You say she was ok on Wainwrights. You took her off because she stopped eating it. This is a big clue. Wainwrights seems to suit her so I would put her back on it and give her absolutely nothing else. Use it for treats too.

Not eating can be a behaviour problem. They quickly learn that we will give them something else or add in something tasty if they leave their food.

I would put the food down without looking at her or talking to her. Leave it down, but do not leave the room, for ten minutes just potter around and completely ignore her. Once the ten minutes is up, pick up the food, again without looking at her. Do not make a comment to anyone else about her behaviour.

Try again later in the day with the same rules. No looking at her or talking to her or commenting on her behaviour in her presence.

The reasoning behind this is that dogs pick up our anxiety over their eating or not eating. It then makes their tummy go tight and they stop eating. If they are not anxious they are manipulating us into giving them something else. Once she is eating Wainwrights, which suits her tummy, you can decide what to do about her diet in the long term. You can introduce various types of food, one at a time, to see which one is causing her upset tummy. From there you will be able to choose the right food and treats for her.

I had a lurcher bitch that refused to eat anything for several days while I was away. My husband thought that she was pining for me but she was just "working" him. She tried it with me when I got back but I put the above into practice and she started eating again. I could tell from the way she kept looking up from the bowl that she was expecting to be encouraged and cajoled or to have tasty things added. It was tough doing it, because they never look fat in the first place, but it is best for them. People with multi dog households rarely suffer this problem as there is competition for the food. Well we have to be the "competition" by picking up the bowl of uneaten food and giving them nothing else until the next meal.

That is a good idea I could try the Wainwrights again. I'm having the same problem today. She has been fine on the vets food for ages but has started to become ill again. It's only got chicken and rice in it plus the bit of mince I add. ( I've noticed if I give her the mince when it's just been cooked, cooled down though, she is ill in the night. It may just be a coincidene. I don't know why that would make her ill and not the next day when she has it a day old). Yesterday I tried to cut out the mince to see if that helps. Plus stopped the bedtime biscuits last night. She did a normal poo today but has stopped eating her dinner (because it doesn't have mince in, also the vet told me to add in some fibre pellets to see if that helps). She's now gone from having 3 meals a day to half a bowl. I'll try the above and see if it works. We do make a fuss trying to get her to eat so may be we're making it worse. This is our first dog so it's all a big learning curve. She is very good at getting her own way. Very stubborn too. Thank you. I'll let you know how I get on.

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Do factor in that she is scavenging around as well. My Whippet used to scrape up road kill from the road and eat it as we trotted along! It never affected her though.

Whippets do have trouble with immune mediated diseases. My Whippet had Addisons disease. This is very hard to diagnose as it is called the "Great Pretender" it has all sorts of different symptoms for each dog. One of them is diarrhoea but it is intermittent. Another is lameness. Another is lethargy but there are quite a lot and they come and go. Not wanting to worry you but worth keeping in the back of your mind if this continues on and on.

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19 hours ago, gypsysmum2 said:

Do factor in that she is scavenging around as well. My Whippet used to scrape up road kill from the road and eat it as we trotted along! It never affected her though.

Whippets do have trouble with immune mediated diseases. My Whippet had Addisons disease. This is very hard to diagnose as it is called the "Great Pretender" it has all sorts of different symptoms for each dog. One of them is diarrhoea but it is intermittent. Another is lameness. Another is lethargy but there are quite a lot and they come and go. Not wanting to worry you but worth keeping in the back of your mind if this continues on and on.

She was ill again last night... I love her but it's killing me having to wake up every hour to let her out! I left the door open in the end but then can't sleep because I think someone is in the house! (the area has had a rise in buglaries lately). The other thing it may be is that it's not food related at all. I work from home so she always has me around. I did leave her for 1.5 hours. She didn't seem stressed but I'm not here to see it. On 2 other occasions we've been out and left her on her own and then she's been ill in the night. But she was fine when she stayed with the dog sitter for 2 weeks when we were on holiday. She was ill the second day we got her home though. She has lots of engery and no lameness. It's probably something very simple I'm missing! It's driving me mad not knowing though. She is bad for eating on walks. I don't really know what to do at the min. I'm worried all the antibiotics have done some harm. Normally after having the 7 day course she's ok for 2-3 weeks. (It used to be longer between taking them. We have had almost 4 month before). This was just 4 days. I didn't know about the immune mediated disease. Your poor whippet having Addisons. I'll keep this in mind, thank you.

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What about adding some live yoghurt to her food, to balance the friendly bacteria in her gut? It at least can't do any harm.

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36 minutes ago, JoanneF said:

What about adding some live yoghurt to her food, to balance the friendly bacteria in her gut? It at least can't do any harm.

I was just thinking about a probiotic. I'll try live yoghurt and see what happens. How much should I give her?

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Try a dessert spoonful assuming she is a normal sized whippet.

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On a different track have you thought of putting a muzzle on her when you take her out. We often come across two goldies that are muzzled simply to reduce their scavenging. They do get some people giving them a wide berth obviously thinking the dogs are vicious but they are typically goldies very happy friendly dogs.

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2 hours ago, JoanneF said:

Try a dessert spoonful assuming she is a normal sized whippet.

She's a small whippet. Often people think she's an Italian greyhound.

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1 hour ago, Biker John said:

On a different track have you thought of putting a muzzle on her when you take her out. We often come across two goldies that are muzzled simply to reduce their scavenging. They do get some people giving them a wide berth obviously thinking the dogs are vicious but they are typically goldies very happy friendly dogs.

We may have to do that. She was running around the park with a babies dummy in her mouth the other day and wouldn't give it up! She then played the 'you can't catch me game'!! She should of been called Womble, she loves to tidy up/carrying litter. Or peeing on it. Depends on her mood ha ha. IMG_2933.thumb.JPG.937d1a41a4a1291df74f8fed270fad05.JPG

 

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I would pester the vet until they sort it out. Mention all the things you have mentioned here. Try to see the same vet each time and see if it can be a senior vet. Stress might be a factor. I have worked in a vet's surgery and they see diarrhoea all the time. They can go on to auto pilot when treating it. If you stress how long this has been going on and give them all the clues then they may start thinking outside the box.

Another clue is that she was fine with the dog sitter. Did she scavenge there? What did they feed her? Was she left alone at all? It might help if you write all the clues down of when she is fine and when she is not. Perhaps some sort of pattern will appear.

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14 hours ago, gypsysmum2 said:

I would pester the vet until they sort it out. Mention all the things you have mentioned here. Try to see the same vet each time and see if it can be a senior vet. Stress might be a factor. I have worked in a vet's surgery and they see diarrhoea all the time. They can go on to auto pilot when treating it. If you stress how long this has been going on and give them all the clues then they may start thinking outside the box.

Another clue is that she was fine with the dog sitter. Did she scavenge there? What did they feed her? Was she left alone at all? It might help if you write all the clues down of when she is fine and when she is not. Perhaps some sort of pattern will appear.

Thank you. I'm going to keep a diary and see if it shows a pattern we've not thought of. She'd been on the pills right up until she went to the dog sitter so that may be why she was well. The dog sitter feed her the same food I do, I'd given it to her to use. Her stay there would of been totally different to home and I would of thought more stressful. Here it's quiet, there it's a busy house with 2 children and she had 5 other dogs staying. She loves our dog sitter. I've never seen her so excited as when she comes to pick her up for a walk once a week. I do need to speak with her though. She was with her Saturday night then ill Sunday night. She walked her Wednesday morning then she was ill Thursday night. There may be something in that. I think you're right though I need to write it all down and see if there is a consistent pattern.

The vet seems stumped. He's said it could be anything, he's not too worried because she's a good weight and not being sick and no blood in stool. He's said we can change diet or do a colonoscopy. I'm not sure I want to put her through the colonoscopy. When she was spayed she was ill with a bad tummy and he still operated. He had a look inside and it all seemed ok. It's funny because she was well after that for months! I thought that may be it was a hormone thing and it was sorted. But slowly it's come back and seems to be happening a lot more.

She was ok last night but I think may be because she's got nothing left in her. She refuses to eat her food without mince in it.

Sorry for going on about it. I just want her well again.

Edited by LillyBlue

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I would be as concerned as you are. So don't worry about going on about it :)

If you are insured could you ask for a referral? I agree that the colonoscopy seems to be a bit of a step too far at this stage, especially if she is well in herself. A specialist might just spot something that has been missed.

My latest rescue had pooping issues for ages. His was formed poop but he would do it in the house at night. I finally tracked it down to being any kind of bone material in his diet. Even a calcium supplement (bone meal?) would cause it. His gut wall must be very sensitive (he had giardia before I got him) and it cannot cope with any kind of bulky hard material in it. He just had to expel it there and then.

I assume your dog has been tested for giardia? They usually do it from a poo sample. Worth ringing your vet and asking for someone to check all the tests to make sure it was included.

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I might be way off here but something occurred to me.

She was ok after the op, and she was ok with the sitter. After her op, she would probably be exercising less - did you reduce her food? Is it possible at all on her normal regime that you are overfeeding? If her sitter gave less and she had less after her spey could that be a key? Overfeeding does cause runny tummies. I don't know if it's possible but thought it was worth a mention.

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hello sandra. Lilly is certainly a beautiful girl. I have a blue boy ( and 3 others aged 1 to 15). I have had experience of whippets with problem guts and know just how stressful it is when you think you're getting somewhere only to have them get ill again. i currently have one with protein losing enteropathy - a challenge -but so far we are winning - although it didn't feel that way at 4 o'clock this morning in the garden in my dressing gown!

if you don't mind i would like to tell you my( almost random) thoughts about your situation- which has been on my mind a bit,  and what i've done in the past. i think you are probably dealing with a food sensitivity. if your vet is happy that lilly's bloods are fine - ruling out PLE and pancreatitis and her poop  also clear then i would be looking to it being a problem with her gut. Small intestine bacterial overgrowth is something to condsider as well - i suspect that is why your vet gave you Tylosin as i think that is the standard treatment .

I would recommend having a look at the website Nutriscan.org. This a place that you can use to carry out food sensitivity testing. I think that it is probably the best available tool at the moment for food related issues. It costs about £300 or so. I have used it twice  for different dogs. i wouldn't hesitate to do it again. i feel that if this test had been available years ago i might have had a chance of saving one of our dogs who's  gut was ultimately the cause of her demise.

I would be feeding a probiotic, the one i've used is Protexin synbiotic. These capsules have a high amount of both pre and pro biotics . i got them from hyperdrug.com where i get all my doggy supplements and supplies. i also feed Dorwest's Tree Barks Powder. You can phone them for advice-01308 897272 or e-mail them.

with food sensitivities the idea is to feed a novel protein source such as ostrich, venison, kangaroo etc.  there are a number of companies out there i am using food from Trovet which i get from petfoodwarehouse.co.uk. i would if possible be feeding raw but sometimes this is not an option .some of the ready made raw products have an awful lot of ingredients in them which may make it more difficult  for you to pin down what might be irritating to lilly.

the wet royal canin gastrointestinal does not only contain chicken and rice. it has meat and meat by products, fish and fish by products , veg and veg by products and cereals. this non specific list of ingredients makes it impossible to know what lilly is actually getting. the dry version is a bit better with a shorter list of more specific ingredients listed and might be worth a try.

you say lilly gets mince, if it is beef i think that beef may be one of the more troublesome proteins. i was wondering if the cold mince has less fat in it than the warm mince and may be the amount of fat affects whether she is ill or not.

i wondered if the treats that you feed would be different from the treats at the dog sitters and whether that might hold a clue

i feed my adult whippets two meals a day, i wondered if 3 meals means her gut has to work more often - maybe never getting a rest? 

i know how hard it is to cope with something that seems intermittent, you think you're on top of it and then it flares up again - it's both exhausting and demoralizing.

 

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On 15/09/2017 at 7:22 PM, gypsysmum2 said:

I would be as concerned as you are. So don't worry about going on about it :)

If you are insured could you ask for a referral? I agree that the colonoscopy seems to be a bit of a step too far at this stage, especially if she is well in herself. A specialist might just spot something that has been missed.

My latest rescue had pooping issues for ages. His was formed poop but he would do it in the house at night. I finally tracked it down to being any kind of bone material in his diet. Even a calcium supplement (bone meal?) would cause it. His gut wall must be very sensitive (he had giardia before I got him) and it cannot cope with any kind of bulky hard material in it. He just had to expel it there and then.

I assume your dog has been tested for giardia? They usually do it from a poo sample. Worth ringing your vet and asking for someone to check all the tests to make sure it was included.

Lilly came to us as a puppy with giardia and it has been spotted in earlier poo samples when she was younger. She's been on and off antibiotics all her little life. The last sample came back negative. Lilly was ill again Friday night but not so bad as before. She was ok Saturday and Sunday night. It was starting to look like she would be ill every other night!! We're going to keep writing in the diary this week and see how she is. I'm writing everything down. I hope it shows some kind of pattern.

That was good detective work finding out your rescue dog had a problem with bone material!

Thank you for all your helpful advice.

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On 15/09/2017 at 8:03 PM, JoanneF said:

I might be way off here but something occurred to me.

She was ok after the op, and she was ok with the sitter. After her op, she would probably be exercising less - did you reduce her food? Is it possible at all on her normal regime that you are overfeeding? If her sitter gave less and she had less after her spey could that be a key? Overfeeding does cause runny tummies. I don't know if it's possible but thought it was worth a mention.

I just wrote a really long reply here and somehow it's disappeared ha ha. But if you do get it twice I apologise. It basicly said .. I didn't know overfeeding did that! We do feed her 3 times a day! She can get so skinny when ill so when she's well we like her to eat well. I have told the vet that's what we feed her and he didn't say it was too much. It works out at 1 and a half tins a day with mince, then treats on top. You may have a point! She has an hour and half walk with zoomies at lunchtime and another 30-40 mins walk in the even. Does that seem ok food to exercise ratio? She eats once back from both walks. Breakfast she just eats then goes back to sleep.

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On 16/09/2017 at 3:22 PM, dogmatize said:

hello sandra. Lilly is certainly a beautiful girl. I have a blue boy ( and 3 others aged 1 to 15). I have had experience of whippets with problem guts and know just how stressful it is when you think you're getting somewhere only to have them get ill again. i currently have one with protein losing enteropathy - a challenge -but so far we are winning - although it didn't feel that way at 4 o'clock this morning in the garden in my dressing gown!

if you don't mind i would like to tell you my( almost random) thoughts about your situation- which has been on my mind a bit,  and what i've done in the past. i think you are probably dealing with a food sensitivity. if your vet is happy that lilly's bloods are fine - ruling out PLE and pancreatitis and her poop  also clear then i would be looking to it being a problem with her gut. Small intestine bacterial overgrowth is something to condsider as well - i suspect that is why your vet gave you Tylosin as i think that is the standard treatment .

I would recommend having a look at the website Nutriscan.org. This a place that you can use to carry out food sensitivity testing. I think that it is probably the best available tool at the moment for food related issues. It costs about £300 or so. I have used it twice  for different dogs. i wouldn't hesitate to do it again. i feel that if this test had been available years ago i might have had a chance of saving one of our dogs who's  gut was ultimately the cause of her demise.

I would be feeding a probiotic, the one i've used is Protexin synbiotic. These capsules have a high amount of both pre and pro biotics . i got them from hyperdrug.com where i get all my doggy supplements and supplies. i also feed Dorwest's Tree Barks Powder. You can phone them for advice-01308 897272 or e-mail them.

with food sensitivities the idea is to feed a novel protein source such as ostrich, venison, kangaroo etc.  there are a number of companies out there i am using food from Trovet which i get from petfoodwarehouse.co.uk. i would if possible be feeding raw but sometimes this is not an option .some of the ready made raw products have an awful lot of ingredients in them which may make it more difficult  for you to pin down what might be irritating to lilly.

the wet royal canin gastrointestinal does not only contain chicken and rice. it has meat and meat by products, fish and fish by products , veg and veg by products and cereals. this non specific list of ingredients makes it impossible to know what lilly is actually getting. the dry version is a bit better with a shorter list of more specific ingredients listed and might be worth a try.

you say lilly gets mince, if it is beef i think that beef may be one of the more troublesome proteins. i was wondering if the cold mince has less fat in it than the warm mince and may be the amount of fat affects whether she is ill or not.

i wondered if the treats that you feed would be different from the treats at the dog sitters and whether that might hold a clue

i feed my adult whippets two meals a day, i wondered if 3 meals means her gut has to work more often - maybe never getting a rest? 

i know how hard it is to cope with something that seems intermittent, you think you're on top of it and then it flares up again - it's both exhausting and demoralizing.

 

Thank you for your message. This all sounds like good advice. We did get the dry version of the food but then she was ill so I stopped giving it to her. It does sound like we're overfeeding her. We do give her 3 meals a day. I think because she was sick bright yellow bile in the mornings I worried she was so empty I wasn't feeding enough. Plus, when she gets ill she can become very skinny. We thought it better she had a bit of weight on her to lose. She's been ok Saturday and Sunday. I'm keeping a diary and now after reading all my messages I'll cut down feeding a bit and see what happens. Thank you again for writing.

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31 minutes ago, LillyBlue said:

Thank you for your message. This all sounds like good advice. We did get the dry version of the food but then she was ill so I stopped giving it to her. It does sound like we're overfeeding her. We do give her 3 meals a day. I think because she was sick bright yellow bile in the mornings I worried she was so empty I wasn't feeding enough. Plus, when she gets ill she can become very skinny. We thought it better she had a bit of weight on her to lose. She's been ok Saturday and Sunday. I'm keeping a diary and now after reading all my messages I'll cut down feeding a bit and see what happens. Thank you again for writing.

I forgot to say.. I can totally sympathise with you walking around the garden at 4am in the morning! It's horrible seeing them ill and not being able to do anything about it too. I've also just Googled protein losing enteropathy. Your poor whippet, it sounds painful and must be very worrying for you. I've also looked up Pancreatitis. I'm assuming the vet would have looked for these but also her general health seems ok. There was no pain when the vet prodded and poked her tummy. She is fill of beans when awake, always pestering me to play in the evenings.

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